Haegwan Kim: Let’s start from your personal definition of success.
Pooja Warier: Oh, that’s a profound question. So there are two or three things to this. Personally, I feel I wouldn’t know that I’m successful. If I die and I’m on my death bed, and I don’t have any like what-if questions in my head left, like what if I had done that, or what if I had tried this, I think I would be successful if I have followed every dream, or almost every passion that I have. So if tomorrow I want to retire and become a break dancer, I hope I have the courage to follow that dream.
So just like that at the end of my life I don’t have too many what-ifs left that I have explored. So that’s my personal thing of like success.
But on another level it doesn’t matter whether you’re selling tea on the road or whether you are running a multi millionaire empire, whatever that may be, but the thing is how do people remember you when you’re gone, right? Or how do people remember when they interacted with you. So if they can remember that interaction was an inspiration, or it happiness, or whatever it was that you wanted to bring, I think you’d become successful. Like if people can look back at that time and say that was a great time that I had with that person, I think that’s really profound.
And the third thing I guess is in what I do right now. If I have inspired other people to take action about stuff that they care about, then I think it’s success.
HK: There are people, including you, focusing on making social impact rather than monetary or financial impact. Why are you focused on social aspect?
PW: Commercial entrepreneurs as well add value to society, so I’ve got no issues against financial activities. Personally, I think I have an interest in people in social sector who commit their lives to change, so that’s why we’re working on that.
Ultimately, I think whether you’re creating a material or a financial impact, it has to come down to social. If you can’t improve the quality of life of people that you’re working with, you might give them lots of money, but honestly, at the end of the day, it doesn’t count. The person has to have a better quality of life, or a good quality of life, and that you can define as whatever you want. You know, the person has a house and three TVs, or whatever it is, but ultimately, they are just things.
It’s very hard to demarcate all these things, isn’t it? Ultimately, I feel like in the world, the world would be a much better place if everyone is happy doing what they do. I don’t think many people are happy doing what they do. That’s why you have all these frustrations and fights, and all of that. I think if every person can actually do what they really like to do, or what they enjoy, the world would be a much better place.
HK: I agree. So you help so many social entrepreneurs in many ways, and you said some are now really successful or famous, and some are still kind of under progress. What is the common elements to be successful, great social entrepreneurs?
PW: I guess the first thing to clarify is when I say some people are successful. It’s by the definition of the larger things, numbers, their skills, their impact on 100 million people, whatever. That’s when I say it’s like a usual definition of success. And other people are not able to influence 100 million, but they make one person really really happy. Personally that’s also a success.
It’s a very difficult question, what does it take to make a great social entrepreneur. I mean, I can answer that to a degree. I know all the kind of points. But I don’t think in my head it’s so straightforward. For example, if you’re very focused, if you’re very determined about what you want, if you’re able to inspire your teams and take them along with you, how do you say that? Keep your social impact above and very important, if you have a clear vision… I mean, the list goes on and on. So you can have a great social entrepreneur. Yes, brilliant. But I don’t think it’s that straightforward.
Because it’s again, like what metrics are we using? Because you influence 1 million people you are better than somebody who influences smaller people? That’s a kind of a skew.
HK: Since I came to India, I really feel like the religion brings some sort of passion for social entrepreneurs.
PW: Does it?
HK: I’m not sure, but like in the United States as well, I feel Christian and Hindi helping others. Do you think religious perspective promotes social sectors?
PW: I believe in spirituality and not religion. Well, there are all these things that you have to do this under Hinduism, under Islam, etc., etc. I think that leads to a more traditional form of change making, that you go and donate to temples, that you go and donate to whatever. You know, you be nice to your neighbour and all that. I think it would be an interesting study to do in terms of how much does spirituality affect a social entrepreneur. Of course you see a problem and you see a need, but there’s also like an interim obligation, like I would say to be of value and change the world, and I think that stems more from a spiritual source rather than a religious source. I think there’s a distinction there.
Yes, there are missionaries and there are Hindus, and they are doing great work as well. But that’s a duty to God they’re performing. Do you see what I’m saying? It’s not a duty to their human kindness. It’s a duty to God, having brownie points from God; when you die you will probably get like better heaven facilities. But you know, spirituality is different. It’s something you do for your own, it’s for a more intrinsic obligation towards the world. There’s a kind of difference.
HK: What are the biggest challenges for you at the moment?
PW: Very clearly, we need more people to join our team. It’s more than finding the right mix of people, because we work with various of people, lots of passion, you have to have strategic thinking, and so that’s a challenge to find people who have that mix. Personally, I guess the challenge for me is to figure out what social entrepreneurship is all about, in the sense that I’ve done this for now five years and it’s great. I’ve enjoyed every bit of everything that I do, but it’s again that question like how much is enough. It’s personal things; Do you go deep in your impact? Do you expand? Or do you let it go? Or what is it? So I think that’s a challenge that every person goes through.
HK: The final question is about success, what would be your advice to be successful in a general sense?
PW: Be authentic to yourself and follow your passion and your heart, but the main thing is be authentic to yourself.
Pooja Warier is a social entrepreneur and the director of UnLtd India.
Haegwan Kim is a writer who was born in Osaka, Japan in 1989 and grew up near Tokyo where went to a Korean school for 12 years.
